THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOD’S WRATH AND THE TRIBULATION – by Flying Dutchman

 

Many people think the tribulation is God’s wrath and therefore we (Christians / believers / faithful / the elect) would be not appointed to it.
So an assumption is made here that the tribulation is equal, the same as God’s wrath. But is that really true?
The difference on whether it is or whether not, can change your whole eschatology toward the timing of the rapture for example.
Before you want to determine what the tribulation and God’s wrath is, you need to look at the meaning of it and use the best sources for that of course.. That’s what i will try to do, see it as a study, you can make up your mind about it yourself.

All what matters is the New Testament “tribulation”":

 

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/l … ny&x=4&y=5
G2346:

Quote:

1) to press (as grapes), press hard upon

2) a compressed way

a) narrow straitened, contracted

3) metaph. to trouble, afflict, distress

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G2346
G2347:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G2347

Quote:

1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure

2) metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits

The verses applied to those words are inside the links above.
This will become very relevant later!

This is what “wrath” means:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/l … ath&st=any

Here all N.T versions:

G2372:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G2372

Quote:

1) passion, angry, heat, anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding again

2) glow, ardour, the wine of passion, inflaming wine (which either drives the drinker mad or kills him with its strength)

G2372:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G3709

Quote:

1) anger, the natural disposition, temper, character

2) movement or agitation of the soul, impulse, desire, any violent emotion, but esp. anger

3) anger, wrath, indignation

4) anger exhibited in punishment, hence used for punishment itself

a) of punishments inflicted by magistrates

G3949:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G3949

Quote:

1) to rouse to wrath, to provoke, exasperate, anger

G3950:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G3950

Quote:

1) indignation, wrath, exasperation

 

 

So bottom-line; what you see is that the word “tribulation” and “wrath” are different words with a different meaning.

To understand that is a big deal for your understanding about where or what the tribulation is about and what God’s wrath is and the difference between them.

 

 All N.T verses that talk about “tribulation”, I will put the Lexicon after it as well:

Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Mat 13:21 Yet 1161 hath he 2192 not 3756 root 4491 in 1722 himself 1438, but 235 dureth 2076 for a while 4340: for 1161 when tribulation 2347 or 2228 persecution 1375 ariseth 1096 because 1223 of the word 3056, by and by 2117 he is offended 4624 .

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:21 For 1063 then 5119 shall be 2071 great 3173 tribulation 2347, such as 3634 was 1096 not 3756 since 575 the beginning 746 of the world 2889 to this 2193 time 3568, no 3761, nor ever 3364 shall be 1096 .

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:29 Immediately 1161 2112 after 3326 the tribulation 2347 of those 1565 days 2250 shall the sun 2246 be darkened 4654 , and 2532 the moon 4582 shall 1325 0 not 3756 give 1325 her 846 light 5338, and 2532 the stars 792 shall fall 4098 from 575 heaven 3772, and 2532 the powers 1411 of the heavens 3772 shall be shaken 4531 :

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Mar 13:24 But 235 in 1722 those 1565 days 2250, after 3326 that 1565 tribulation 2347, the sun 2246 shall be darkened 4654 , and 2532 the moon 4582 shall 1325 0 not 3756 give 1325 her 846 light 5338,

Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Jhn 16:33 These things 5023 I have spoken 2980 unto you 5213, that 2443 in 1722 me 1698 ye might have 2192 peace 1515. In 1722 the world 2889 ye shall have 2192 2192 tribulation 2347: but 235 be of good cheer 2293 ; I 1473 have overcome 3528 the world 2889.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Act 14:22 Confirming 1991 the souls 5590 of the disciples 3101, [and] exhorting them 3870 to continue 1696 in the faith 4102, and 2532 that 3754 we 2248 must 1163 through 1223 much 4183 tribulation 2347 enter 1525 into 1519 the kingdom 932 of God 2316.

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Rom 2:9 Tribulation 2347 and 2532 anguish 4730, upon 1909 every 3956 soul 5590 of man 444 that doeth 2716 evil 2556, of the Jew 2453 first 4412, and 5037 also 2532 of the Gentile 1672;

Rom 5:3 And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Rom 5:3 And 1161 not 3756 only 3440 [so], but 235 we glory 2744 in 1722 tribulations 2347 also 2532: knowing 1492 that 3754 tribulation 2347 worketh 2716 patience 5281;

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:35 Who 5101 shall separate 5563 us 2248 from 575 the love 26 of Christ 5547? [shall] tribulation 2347, or 2228 distress 4730, or 2228 persecution 1375, or 2228 famine 3042, or 2228 nakedness 1132, or 2228 peril 2794, or 2228 sword 3162?

Rom 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Rom 12:12 Rejoicing 5463 in hope 1680; patient 5278 in tribulation 2347; continuing instant 4342 in prayer 4335;

2Cr 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

2Cr 1:4 Who 3588 comforteth 3870 us 2248 in 1909 all 3956 our 2257 tribulation 2347, that 1519 we 2248 may be able 1410 to comfort 3870 them which are in 1722 any 3956 trouble 2347, by 1223 the comfort 3874 wherewith 3739 we 3870 0 ourselves 846 are comforted 3870 of 5259 God 2316.

2Cr 7:4 Great [is] my boldness of speech toward you, great [is] my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

2Cr 7:4 Great 4183 [is] my 3427 boldness of speech 3954 toward 4314 you 5209, great 4183 [is] my 3427 glorying 2746 of 5228 you 5216: I am filled 4137 with comfort 3874, I am exceeding 5248 joyful 5479 in 1909 all 3956 our 2257 tribulation 2347.

1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

1Th 3:4 For 1063 verily 2532, when 3753 we were 2258 with 4314 you 5209, we told 4302 0 you 5213 before 4302 that 3754 we should 3195 suffer tribulation 2346 ; even 2532 as 2531 it came to pass 1096 , and 2532 ye know 1492 .

2Th 1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2Th 1:6 Seeing 1512 [it is] a righteous thing 1342 with 3844 God 2316 to recompense 467 tribulation 2347 to them that trouble 2346 you 5209;

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 1:9 I 1473 John 2491, who 3588 also 2532 am your 5216 brother 80, and 2532 companion 4791 in 1722 tribulation 2347, and 2532 in 1722 the kingdom 932 and 2532 patience 5281 of Jesus 2424 Christ 5547, was 1096 in 1722 the isle 3520 that is called 2564 Patmos 3963, for 1223 the word 3056 of God 2316, and 2532 for 1223 the testimony 3141 of Jesus 2424 Christ 5547.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:9 I know 1492 thy 4675 works 2041, and 2532 tribulation 2347, and 2532 poverty 4432, (but 1161 thou art 1488 rich 4145) and 2532 [I know] the blasphemy 988 of them which 3588 say 3004 they 1438 are 1511 Jews 2453, and 2532 are 1526 not 3756, but 235 [are] the synagogue 4864 of Satan 4567.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Rev 2:10 Fear 5399 none 3367 of those things which 3739 thou shalt 3195 suffer 3958 : behold 2400 , the devil 1228 shall 3195 cast 906 [some] of 1537 you 5216 into 1519 prison 5438, that 2443 ye may be tried 3985 ; and 2532 ye shall have 2192 tribulation 2347 ten 1176 days 2250: be thou 1096 faithful 4103 unto 891 death 2288, and 2532 I will give 1325 thee 4671 a crown 4735 of life 2222.

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev 2:22 Behold 2400 , I 1473 will cast 906 her 846 into 1519 a bed 2825, and 2532 them that commit adultery 3431 with 3326 her 846 into 1519 great 3173 tribulation 2347, except 3362 they repent 3340 of 1537 their 846 deeds 2041.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 7:14 And 2532 I said 2046 unto him 846, Sir 2962, thou 4771 knowest 1492 . And 2532 he said 2036 to me 3427, These 3778 are they 1526 which came 2064 out of 1537 great 3173 tribulation 2347, and 2532 have washed 4150 their 846 robes 4749, and 2532 made 3021 0 them 4749 846 white 3021 in 1722 the blood 129 of the Lamb 721.

All verses are G2347 except for 1Th 3:4 where it’s G2346.

You earlier saw what it means. I posted all verses with the word “tribulation” of the New Testament, that to take away all doubts, that I would have forgotten about something important. I’m going to do the same with the word “wrath”:

 

Until now I put all the Lexicon results after the verses, it’s too much, but here are all links where you can find the word “wrath” below:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G2372


http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G3709


http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G3949


http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G3950

 

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luk 4:28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Act 19:28 And when they heard [these sayings], they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great [is] Diana of the Ephesians.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Rom 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Col 3:6 For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Hbr 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hbr 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Jam 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

Jam 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

You’ve probably seen that there are more results of verses inside the links to the Lexicon than the results I have shown above based on the word “wrath”.

That is because I only typed in “wrath” into the Lexicon, but some words like “anger” give the same result in the Lexicon, meaning it’s wrath too. But here above are all verses that contain the word “wrath” as it’s mentioned in the English Bible, which is especially relevant to understand the difference between tribulation and wrath. 

If you noticed the verses with “tribulation”, it’s dealing with persecution.

If you noticed the verses with “wrath”, it mainly deals with God’s wrath or anger, with a few exceptions.
Where it’s God’s wrath it mentions it, and where it’s not it also gives you a clue.
sometimes it doesn’t talk about God’s wrath literally, but mentions that it deals with law etc, so you know the wrath talked about refers to God’s wrath.

Where is it not God’s wrath?
Here:





Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Except for all other verses related to “wrath”,this verse that is dealing with God’s wrath, here in Rev 12:12 , you explicitly see its dealing with “the devil’s” wrath. So that doesn’t leave any room for doubt or confusion either!

There is another one, where the word “wroth”( another word for “wrath”) is used in Revelation 12:17:

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. ( KJV)

 

Also very important in relation to the difference between “the tribulation” and “wrath” is that one important verse is often used as “evidence” that “the Church” ( the Church is in the eyes of dispensationalist pre-tribbers a Non Jewish entity) doesn’t have to endure the tribulation. 

I say “non-Jewish entity” in relation to “the Church”, because the word “Gentile” might be misleading and not entirely correct, I will talk about that in later articles as well.

Here it is:

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:9 For 3754 God 2316 hath 5087 0 not 3756 appointed 5087 us 2248 to 1519 wrath 3709, but 235 to 1519 obtain 4047 salvation 4991 by 1223 our 2257 Lord 2962 Jesus 2424 Christ 5547,

Wrath here meaning:

 

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=G3709

 

Quote:

1) anger, the natural disposition, temper, character

2) movement or agitation of the soul, impulse, desire, any violent emotion, but esp. anger

3) anger, wrath, indignation

4) anger exhibited in punishment, hence used for punishment itself

a) of punishments inflicted by magistrates

The context 1Th 5:9 of is not to endure God’s wrath:

1 Thessalonians 5:

 

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/pr … JV&x=7&y=9

 

So 1 Thessalonians 5:9, can never be used as supposed evidence for the Church not to go through the tribulation.
Cause it’s not speaking about the tribulation here, but that the church is not appointed to God’s wrath. The tribulation is persecution, it’s the devil’s wrath. The only time Scripture uses “wrath” not in relation to God, but for the devil, in Rev 12:12, there it also says “the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath” and that wrath, anger, leads to persecution, affliction..or in other words……tribulation!

Everywhere in Scripture the words persecution, affliction etc are there to be found, because Satan’s antichrist spirit that set people up to the Saints, the elect, faithful, …this is tribulation. There have been many tribulations, but also THE Tribulation of the end times is having the exact same meaning and the exact same cause….Satan! ( not God!!)

God’s wrath if you read back in all relevant passages, is a day of God. It’s not more than a day. If you take the bible literally you need to use the same method, be consistent in how you apply your rules of understanding.

Now if the tribulation would be God’s wrath, then you need to assume that God’s DAY of wrath is not literally a day, but could be 7 years or 3.5 years. That would be possible, but you need to be consistent. Normally, if there is no literal meaning, then there is a reason a parable or something that gives a clue that it’s symbolic, not literal. 

But let’s apply the literal meaning consistently:

The day of God’s wrath is really a day, not seven years or three and a half years etc. Consistent with our literal method, we also go to other scripture that is not symbolic and no parable, so we need to apply those particular verses the same way:

Matthew 24:

Quote:

 

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. 

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 

Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 

Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. 

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 

This is very important, as you see it speaks about the tribulation of “those days”. Plural days, not singular.

Alright, if what many say, the wrath of God is equal to the Tribulation, then than the theory that the wrath of1Th 5:9  ( God’s wrath) would supposedly mean that the Church is avoiding to go through tribulation according to pre-trib view, then we have a problem with our benchmark of literal scripture suddenly.

Cause the day of Wrath if it would be equal to the tribulation is now showing a clear contradiction!

Here is the contradiction:

*The day of wrath ( of God) is seven years, because pre-trib says it’s the tribulation.

However, this is what Scripture says about the tribulation itself:

* Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

And confirmed here as well:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

So conclusion, God’s wrath is not the tribulation as shown in this topic, plus that the day of wrath is a literal day, no reason to take it symbolically, in a similar way, applying Scripture by the same literal method, the tribulation is plural, it’s “those days” and other parts of scripture tell it’s 1260 days, or 42 months.

If we use the bible as benchmark and take it literally, then we have to be consistent, so if no symbolic meaning is given or clue to not take it literally, then other scripture that doesn’t give any clue to not take it literally has to be applied literal.
Then when it’s both literal, you cannot have any contradiction…if you have, then there is a misunderstanding!

So the day of the Lord’s wrath is really “a day”, the tribulation is really “those days”, plural…1260 days we are being told, 42 months.
So now we have applied Scripture fairly, the most honest way, We’ve been consistent, we have no contradiction. See if you take one part of Scripture literal as one day and the other not, but when you still claim it’s the same thing, then you just lost any method, any logic and any benchmark to compare, because any verse can be applied to someone’s view in various ways….according to the reader’s own view, not to a method of literal meaning!
If you use this method for every problem in Scripture, you can work out most problems of understanding and doubts you have!!

 

By the way, I’m a Dutchman, but it works exactly the same way in Dutch, the difference between tribulation and torn ( wrath) and the plural days of tribulation and the singular day of God’s wrath! But we also took away any doubt via the original Greek of the New Testament, via the Lexicon. I’ve prayed over it before I began to work on this topic, to be as accurate as possible and be able to explain it properly.

 

Now, based on what you saw above, you know the next can never be true, I show this to you so that you can see how this works and how various bible teachers are dealing with Scripture:
By Todd Strandberg
What is the Pretribulation Rapture?
http://www.raptureready.com/rr-pretribu … pture.html

 

Quote:

 

God Hath Not Appointed Us to Wrath

In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul assures us that God has not appointed His people to wrath. This wrath is plainly God’s anger that will be poured out during the tribulation. Pre-trib believers interpret this as meaning that Christians will be removed from the earth. Post-trib believers tell a different story. They describe this as meaning that God will protect Christians during the tribulation and pour this wrath out on the unbelievers only. This idea runs against the statement made in Revelation 13:7, in which the Antichrist is given power to make war with the saints and to overcome them. A post-trib view would make God’s promise of protection from wrath into a lie. In years past, it was possible to think of being protected from the guns and swords of that day. Today, when any major war would involve nuclear and chemical weapons, it’s impossible to expect that same kind of protection. When Nagasaki, Japan was bombed during World War II, the bomb exploded over a Catholic church. Everyone who was in the center of the explosion died–both Christians and non-Christians. The only way to validly interpret God’s promise of protection from wrath is by viewing 1 Thessalonians 5:9 as the bodily removal of the Church from this world. 

 

 

As you saw earlier, His wrath is plainly NOT God’s anger that will be poured out during the tribulation.

God’s anger, the day of wrath in that chapter is really one day, while the tribulation is plural, days and is the Devil’s, Satan’s wrath, persecution of the Saints.

Now God never pours out his wrath over the Saints, the faithful, but always over the wicked. and of course Satan’s wrath is poured out over the faithful, which persecution is the result of. 

 

Quote:

A post-trib view would make God’s promise of protection from wrath into a lie.

 

 

Not true as you see, because the related verses are absolutely not telling what Todd Strandberg makes of it in his own mind, which he himself has learned in pre-trib institutes of theology and Bible study. Places where you only learn Scripture to understand within the boundaries of pre-trib dispensationalism….not necessarily according to Scripture, but according to a certain view, theories which are developed by humans. So the accusation is that post-trib is making a liar of God’s promise and God’s word, however according to the best methods, literal scripture in the right context, with the original Greek as extra Scriptural back up, confirms over and over that post-trib is not lying here. If you would like to make this into a fight (which we shouldn’t do!), then post-trib on its turn based on the information I just presented you could bounce this accusation back to the teachers that claim this. The finger pointing of the accuser, in this case Todd Strandberg, is turning against himself now. As you see, teachers can claim a lot, but it’s not necessarily true and most of these idea’s or theories are part of their eschatological system and are taught as “facts”, “the truth”. and one after the other is parroting, repeating them, while few are checking if what is claimed is really the truth and often it’s not so easy because everything is made very complicated by those “instant” theories.

 

Same thing: 

Evidence of Pre-Tribulation Rapture
by Michael Aprile
http://www.utmost-way.com/framep1.htm

 

Quote:

 

Christians are not appointed to wrath. 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 points to the fact that “God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” This verse follows the strongest passage in the Bible on the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4) and must be taken strictly in light of its context. There seems to be a need for context, in interpretation, but no less a need for understanding word usage and meaning. The phrase “the day of the Lord,” in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2, refers to the period when the Lord saves His church from wrath (the Rapture), puts the unbelieving through His wrath (the Tribulation), and then makes His glorious appearing (the Second Coming) to set up His kingdom – in that order. In short, the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation, while the glorious appearing occurs after it. 

 

 

 

by Michael G. Mickey

http://www.rapturealert.com/pretribnewidea.html

 

Quote:

There are two totally different types of tribulation we need to understand as Christians. The first type of tribulation comes to the Church by way of man’s wickedness. The second kind of Tribulation is the kind those dwelling inside the Tribulation Period will have to endure. They are not one and the same!

Many today whose doctrines tell us the Church is going to be thrown into the Tribulation Period with the wicked tend to point to tribulations the Church has suffered at the hands of wicked mankind in the past as an example of Christ’s willingness to let His Bride suffer at His own hand in the Tribulation Period that will come to test the whole earth. Ridiculous! It’s like comparing a peach to a bowling ball!

As Clement put it, the Church has been persecuted, but only by the wicked. Members of the Church have been (and still are being) cast into prison, but only by the unholy! Members of the Church have been stoned, but only by transgressors! Members of the Church have been slain, but only by the accursed! Daniel wasn’t cast into the lion’s den by the Lord or anyone who feared the Lord. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego weren’t placed in the fiery furnace by God, but by the wicked. 

Michael G. Mickey makes the same point. The tribulation is persecution of the wicked….not of God, but “we” are not appointed to God’s wrath is not saying we escape tribulation at all! See the blue quote above, where Michael G. Mickey confirms what I earlier tried to explain. People often get confused in their own way of thinking, cause they don’t have a clear method or benchmark and therefore contradict themselves without knowing it.

Earlier he said:

Quote:

Are we to believe Christ, who Clement writes is free from wrath toward all His creation, is going to appoint His beloved Church to suffer at His own hand during the great day of His wrath? Scripture answers that question.

1st Thessalonians 5:9: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So then quotes 1st Thessalonians 5:9, also thinking this is the tribulation. Thinking that God’s wrath is tribulation, while he earlier said:”the Church has been persecuted, but only by the wicked” and “Members of the Church have been (and still are being) cast into prison, but only by the unholy! Members of the Church have been stoned, but only by transgressors! Members of the Church have been slain, but only by the accursed! Daniel wasn’t cast into the lion’s den by the Lord or anyone who feared the Lord.”

So he made my point instead of his own. So tribulation is as you see a period of persecution, which we earlier saw and Michael G. Mickey also confirms by himself, of the faithful by the wicked….not by God.
So he got confused himself, as he earlier pretended that the church is not going through tribulation, cause:”For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”.

Well then, the tribulation is not God’s wrath, but the wrath of the wicked! So if Christians go through tribulation, they are not appointed by God’s wrath, cause it’s not the same thing!
Which I earlier tried to show you by meaning, by the context of verses quoted etc.

This assumption which is made is not thoroughly researched is having 4.560 hits in Google, just the way I searched on it.

Thomas Ice, defender of the pre-trib view, of the pre-trib Center:

God’s Purpose For The Tribulation
by Thomas Ice
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ic … ation.html

Quote:

Judgment Nature Of The Tribulation

Second, God’s basic purpose for the tribulation is that it be a time of judgment, while at the same time, He will hold forth the gospel of grace. This will precede Christ’s glorious 1,000 year reign from David’s throne in Jerusalem. Judgment, or God’ s wrath, is needed to put down the rebellion of mankind in preparation for Christ’ s reign of peace upon earth during the millennium.

Quote:

A common statement made by some is as follows: ” I believe that the church will go through the tribulation because the Bible says that we will suffer for our faith.” The problem with such a statement is that while it may appear to have the veneer of biblical correctness, at core it betrays a lack of understanding of God’ s purpose for the tribulation. Certainly the Bible teaches that all through out the church age Believers will suffer persecution. This is taught by such passages as John 16:33b, ” In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” And in 2 Timothy 3:12 ” Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” The question is will the church experience the trials of the tribulation? I have found that when a person is knowledgeable of what the Bible says is God’ s purpose for the tribulation, or any issue for that matter, then a very high percentage of those people will come to believe that the church will be taken in the rapture before the tribulation. What is God’ s purpose for the tribulation?

 

 

So despite the word “tribulation” means the same in the entire Bible, from history until now and the future, and despite there where tribulations always, Thomas Ice says:” no”, but with THE Tribulation the bible is suddenly not consistent, and this time you don’t go through Tribulation. This while the Saints, who kept the faith and word of Jesus Testimony, so Christians, are said in Revelation to go through tribulation, be persecuted by the Devil’s wrath in that period…….not to God’s wrath!!

So to say that the last tribulation, which is a global one, is suddenly not what the Saints have to endure, is inconsistent with all warnings given in the bible and all periods described throughout the ages for faithful people to be persecuted during tribulations.

And remember, the tribulation is affliction, persecution of the wicked, not of God! So neither the last tribulation, cause nowhere it says or does it mean that the tribulation is God’s wrath! Ice goes up against Biblical history and creates a new rule based on human theories, that it is supposedly different then last time of tribulation and then quotes verses that are wrongly applied, where he doesn’t care what it also means.

Very effective short video:

God’s Wrath comes after Second Coming
5:31
 

 

 

Also see:

“Not Appointed to Wrath”
Copyright © Tim Warner
Revised January 2009
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/

This is heavily related to the first article of this post:

The “Day of the Lord”
1 Thessalonians 5
Copyright © Tim Warner
Revised September 11, 2007
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/

 

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/artic … p?id=9||40

Quote:

1 Thessalonians 5:9

One of the most popular arguments for the pretribulation rapture is based on 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” It is argued that the great tribulation is an unprecedented time of God’s wrath falling upon the whole world. Since believers are specifically told that they are not appointed to wrath, it is only logical to conclude that the church will be removed from the earth before God’s wrath is poured out. This removal is the rapture of the saints. This argument for the rapture is fallacious for a number of reasons. First, it assumes that the wrath spoken of in verse 9 is the wrath poured out during the tribulation. The context of chapter 5 however makes it abundantly clear that the wrath spoken of in verse 5 is not the wrath of the tribulation but the wrath that occurs at the second coming of Christ—the day of the Lord (cf. 1 Th. 5:1-3).

Second, it assumes that the only method at God’s disposal for protecting the church from His wrath is a total removal from the earth. An examination of the wrath of God in both testaments reveals that the Pretribulationist assumption is totally unwarranted. When God poured out His wrath upon Egypt, He spared the people of Israel (cf. Ex. 8:22-23; 9:4-6, 11, 26; 10:23; 11:7; 12:23; 14:28-29) without first removing them out of the land. The prophet Isaiah says explicitly that God can judge the earth without harming His own covenant people who remain on earth. “Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, the LORD comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; the earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain” (Isa. 26:20-21).

The nail in the coffin to the Pretribulationist use of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 comes from the book of Revelation which shows that God’s people are protected from His wrath during the tribulation. In Revelation 6:16 it is the heathen that ask the mountains and rocks to protect them from the wrath of the lamb. A wrath that falls as a response to the prayers of persecuted and martyred saints (Rev. 6:9-11). After the fifth trumpet is sounded, the locusts of destruction are ordered by God only to harm “those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads” (Rev. 9:4). God’s saints are specifically protected from harm. In Revelation 9:20-21 we are told that these plagues were directed to wicked men. Revelation 14:9-10 says that those who are to experience God’s wrath and undiluted indignation are those who receive the mark of the beast; who worship the beast and his image. This obviously excluded Christians. Revelation 16:1-2 says that God’s wrath (the first bowl) is only to be 

 

poured out on the worshipers of the beast, who have his mark. Once again believers are excluded. In 16:9 and 11 those who receive God’s plagues are identified as blasphemers who refuse to repent. A careful reading of Revelation demonstrates that although God’s people experience persecution, death and harm at the hands of wicked men they are carefully and lovingly excluded from every act of God’s wrath. God’s wrath only falls upon those who are the enemies of Christ and His church. The wrath that falls on the wicked is God’s loving response to the prayers of His saints. Does the church need to be completely removed from the earth to be spared from God’s wrath, as Pre-tribulationists assert? The Scriptures answer that question with an emphatic “no!” 

end quote

 

With this I think I brought up most important issues in relation to this topic.

There is more to tell, but it’s enough for this time I guess.

In addition: I’ve quotes of dr.Thomas Ice of the pre-trib Center, but their website is being redesigned and the links I included in this article are gone. Very often you can find those back in Google, because other websites have copied them from the Pre-trib Center. But I created this article a long time ago and quotes from the Pre-trib Center.

 

The Flying Dutchman

 

 

 

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